Curse

Enchanted Warrior · Apr 22, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

One thing I fervently hope for is that GW2 is not centered around an economy like gw1. An economy is not required to have a game, it is merely a way of offering content.

Thanks for the Input Gaile, it really helped. This type of discourse is really needed on an ongoing basis.

silvershock · Apr 22, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

If you believe farming does not work, here is proof that you are wrong.

Kaleban · Apr 22, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

There is no point in farming when you suck at guild wars or don't invest time in it.
If you invest time in guild wars and don't suck at it, you will finish a chapter and you can start making real money. I understand the problem and I'm not trying to be ignorant, but why complain when there is a good alternative to normal mode farming

:P

What do you tell all the people who haven't made it to hard mode yet? Or now can't scrape the cash together to get the items, armor and runes to be a successful farmer?

This complaint thread isn't about hardcore farming in Hard mode, heck I PREFER green and gold solo farming.

What it was about was the fact that your average "n00b" gasp! who wanted some new skills could conceivably go farm vermin for a few k to buy some skills or cap sigs.

Now they can't. So the rich get richer, and the poor stay poor. GG balance.

Baroness Scarlett · Apr 22, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

I just don't understand why they are trying to make us unhappy!
It is a GAME, it is supposed to make people happy and give them funny experiences.
They don't understand that people don't want to feel like they are working like in a real work instead of feeling like playing something fun and productive that gives you a lot of money, weapons, armors...
If you make a game as hard as making money in real life what is the pleasure of playing and forgetting real life. Just let it go Anet, make us happy, satisfy us! we are simple humans with simple minds that like satisfaction, once you understand that you will do good. UN NERF EVERYTHING! starting with AOE, Soul Reaping, only 10 minions, skills (if you have to separate pvp from pve do it damn it!) and everything you have done for the good of us! feels like a parent punishing us! And let me tell you, nobody likes that lol
Oh! and let us bring our chars to GW2 and not transferable birthday presents.
This is my DREAM and i know is not gonna happen, so bye bye
And the bad thing is that this game use to be like that: perfect, i miss those days badly.

silvershock · Apr 22, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

What do you tell all the people who haven't made it to hard mode yet? Or now can't scrape the cash together to get the items, armor and runes to be a successful farmer?

This complaint thread isn't about hardcore farming in Hard mode, heck I PREFER green and gold solo farming.

What it was about was the fact that your average "n00b" gasp! who wanted some new skills could conceivably go farm vermin for a few k to buy some skills or cap sigs.

Now they can't. So the rich get richer, and the poor stay poor. GG balance.

Noob farming is called noob farming becuz u already made crap cash with it. so I don't really care^^

DarkLight OCA · Apr 22, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkLight OCA

<Rare materials not afected>

Are u sure about this.
Iv solo farmed uw 8 run's 0 Ecto, 0 gold, and not made the entry Free on any of the runs, b4 the nerf update i would get avged out over 10 runs 1 Ecto per run..

btw: if this is just to combat bot's why not stop them from using there botting programs? patch up the code were they able to hock into GW. ban ppl who use bots, as they are tampering with your code dont think they have any legal rights, pluss you could make some cash from them as they would have to re perchis GW to play or try botting again..

as u can see from my post on page 9,^ i have tryed farming my norm spot as i want fow armor. gold items are usless to me as i dont want to spend the best time of my limited game play to selling items and dealing with the stress that come with it.

Elnai · Apr 22, 2007, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

What do you tell all the people who haven't made it to hard mode yet? Or now can't scrape the cash together to get the items, armor and runes to be a successful farmer?

This complaint thread isn't about hardcore farming in Hard mode, heck I PREFER green and gold solo farming.

What it was about was the fact that your average "n00b" gasp! who wanted some new skills could conceivably go farm vermin for a few k to buy some skills or cap sigs.

Now they can't. So the rich get richer, and the poor stay poor. GG balance.

So they farm somewhere other than vermin.... They can quest alot of the prophecies skills too.

Soul Echo · Apr 22, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I worked hard to get where I am in the game. I can now access HM on any chapter. I don't want players who didn't do the time to get the same rewards that I get! No Gamer Left Behind, pah! This same mentality is why our country's children are all growing up mediocre. Finish the chapters, THEN worry about getting the fancy armor/weapons! That is the way it should be. Big Job=Big Reward.

Kaleban · Apr 22, 2007, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnai

So they farm somewhere other than vermin.... They can quest alot of the prophecies skills too.

And the people with Canthan/Nightfall characters? I don't remember there being a lot of Assassin/Ritualist/Dervish/Paragon skill rewards in Tyria...

And do people even read before posting? I specifically stated what do people new to the game or who weren't rich beforehand do in NORMAL mode to generate cash to get stuff?

Yes, I'm glad Silvershock doesn't care about the majority of GW PvE players, his posts only serve to reinforce my argument, although he probably can't see that.

Read my post last page with my ideas for improvement. If you can honestly say that those ideas are WORSE than what is currently in place... then I feel very sorry for you and the community.

Amy Awien · Apr 22, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

Took me 5 minutes work(!!), no kidding.

That much? It might all still be the result of farming, but the picture looks like it's is on the Isle, with a Master of Winds in the background?

Baroness Scarlett · Apr 22, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul Echo

I worked hard to get where I am in the game. I can now access HM on any chapter. I don't want players who didn't do the time to get the same rewards that I get! No Gamer Left Behind, pah! This same mentality is why our country's children are all growing up mediocre. Finish the chapters, THEN worry about getting the fancy armor/weapons! That is the way it should be. Big Job=Big Reward.

Really! what is the big reward in hard mode? a stupid tittle to display that nobody realize that is there? not even new weapons skins? are you joking? do you expect me to play 3 campaigns with my 8 chars again? for that! i am laughing in everybody's face if you think there is a lot of people motivated to play hard mode! Doa was a joke, hardmode is a bad joke

FoxBat · Apr 22, 2007, 04:45 PM // 16:45

I don't think Anet really wants your further input though. All Gaile is doing anymore is trying to repair bad image.

The bottom line is that solo farmers aren't going to have a ton of gold relative to everyone. That means you've lost the advantage you used to have, and everyone else just playing the game is then better off. The richer group doesn't want equality, the poor group does. There is no way Anet can appease the rich group while still achieving their "socialist" goals which they think are best for the community at large (and I happen to agree.)

If they upped party drops instead of lowering solo drops, after inflation/deflation of item value the result would be the same. *Any* solution that gives regular players easier access to market-value items drops the value of items you farm and sell, *Any* solution that gives them easier access to gold and junk drops inflates gold to the point that the solo farmer's won't go as far anymore. It would take longer to be noticed but the result is the same. The only thing that doesn't adjust relatively are static prices like skills, 15k for armor, 5k for weapons etc. so you might as well discuss those instead.

Basically there is no way to make everyone happy in an equalizing move unless those losing their current advantage happen to be easily fooled. (though I think some have been...)

P.S. between the prophecies skill quests, the crazy factions xp/gold rewards, nightfall hero skill trainers, collectors for weapons... I have no idea what you *need* to farm for. I've managed to fully unlock 4 professions on my ranger just from quests, missions, and selling my endgame green. Any "casual" player's money needs should be less extreme I hope.

Punches · Apr 22, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

I had posted somewhere else that I haven't noticed much of a difference in loot drops since the update, other than an increased number of Gold item drops, and this is still true. Reading this much needed specification on how loot scaling works makes me understand why. They are really only interested in scaling gold. I feel that the reasons behind this are justified and it seems like a good idea to me.

What I find amusing is that in all the farming nerf complaint threads before this one you saw nothing but posts about how "Solo-Farming is the only thing I enjoy, you've ruined the game for me, I'm going to rage quit because I can't solo-farm as effectively as I used to, blah blah blah". Only now that we have an explanation and it is clear that solo-farming can still reap great rewards, the issue has suddenly become "But your newer players cant farm to get the items they need!". That was never the case to begin with, and it isn't the case now, as newer players can still farm for gold/green drops and sell them for profit. It is my understanding that the only people affected are people who continually farm for new gold from a map, and if those people are so upset about having to sell a few items to make that gold as opposed to having it drop outright, well then they're probably running bots now aren't they, because that's just a stupid complaint.

I guess foxbat was right, you can't make everyone happy. I for one feel this was a great update and breathed new life into the game, and it seems most players in-game feel the same, it's too bad on these threads the only people who really take the time to post are people who want to complain about everything and the silent majority goes largely unrepresented.

Lt Smackahoe · Apr 22, 2007, 05:05 PM // 17:05

In my humble opinion I feel that this update is a bad choice. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. Now if you want to buy decent armor or weapons you have to buy gold online and pay a rediculious price for them, because this is going to be driving prices up.

I do understand that the problem with the bots...but who cares. You are punishing all of us because of the bots!!! Most of us farm the gold and these green items to sell at market price and then buy our armor and whatever else we need. What about the players that arent in guilds or even the ones that are just starting out, theyre not gonna stay, whats the point?!?!?!? You cant make these Deep runs, and DOA missions with the base crap you get and it will be too hard to get anything else. There must be a diff way to stop these bots than making everyone suffer, I for one MAY never play again that may not bother anyone but for 3 years I have been playing in my spare time and made lots of friends and it sucks that this is happening cause I have a really bad taste in my mouth for Guild Wars now, I was soooo looking forward to GW2. Kinda pointless now.

Nomen Mendax · Apr 22, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I don't think Anet really wants your further input though. All Gaile is doing anymore is trying to repair bad image.

...

If they upped party drops instead of lowering solo drops, after inflation/deflation of item value the result would be the same. *Any* solution that gives regular players easier access to market-value items drops the value of items you farm and sell, *Any* solution that gives them easier access to gold and junk drops inflates gold to the point that the solo farmer's won't go as far anymore. It would take longer to be noticed but the result is the same. The only thing that doesn't adjust relatively are static prices like skills, 15k for armor, 5k for weapons etc. so you might as well discuss those instead.

...

But that (the bit of your post I put in bold) is half the point of the complaints. I'm a casual farmer who is farming to buy: armour, skills, and keys. I don't want to buy traded items, and I was happy farming to get a better chance of finding what I did want. Basically there are two choices:

Make everyone except expert farmers poorer (what ANet has done)
- this means that the casual player who wants to buy 15K armour or lots of skills is still going to find it hard to do so, and
- will have some unknown effect on the economy, as has been pointed out the hardcore "expert farmers" playing on hard mode can still make lots of money so we don't really know how the amount of money in the system will be affected.

Make non-farmers richer (by increasing the drop rate for groups)
- everyone will find it easier to buy the armour and skills they want, and
- the non-farmers will have more money to spend on other stuff.

So, again, why not choose the second option which (a) doesn't upset people and (b) is far more likely to meet ANet's stated goals?

Punches · Apr 22, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lt Smackahoe

... Now if you want to buy decent armor or weapons you have to buy gold online and pay a rediculious price for them, because this is going to be driving prices up.

... Most of us farm the gold and these green items to sell at market price and then buy our armor and whatever else we need.

Did you read the dev notes before you posted this? Gaile specifically said farming for items to sell to characters and earn money that is currently in the game will not be affected by loot scaling and will, in-fact, be more successfull due to increased rare drops. Omg I give up. I'm rage quitting the forums.

Mad King Corn · Apr 22, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I think ANET has done a lot for us by releasing the update excluding certain items from scaleing. I am very happy with how farming is set up now and most people should be too. The current system has seriously hurt BOT farming, look at Gold Prices online.

That was their goal and its working, we still have farming!
As for the complaints of people needing cash for armor, skills etc, that can be easilly fixed, lower skill cost to 100Gold and increase rewards for mission and quest rewards, thats all they need to do! By increasing the rewards, people will play missions and quests more and that will make it a little easier to get a PUG, and if mission and quest rewards were substantially increased, people could easilly get the money they needed. Perhaps the new skill tomes drop rate could even be increased. There are also more ways anet could allow the casual user to get gold like simply double or triple the ammount of gold dropped by each monster, with the current system of scaleing, the casual people would benifit while the Bots still would not get more that the casual players.

Soul Echo · Apr 22, 2007, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baroness Scarlett

Really! what is the big reward in hard mode? a stupid tittle to display that nobody realize that is there? not even new weapons skins? are you joking? do you expect me to play 3 campaigns with my 8 chars again? for that! i am laughing in everybody's face if you think there is a lot of people motivated to play hard mode! Doa was a joke, hardmode is a bad joke

I think you misunderstood, but hey, that seems to happen a lot in these B&M threads. Sorry, but I don't feel the need to clarify, will be going to play the game now.

Oh, BTW Gaile, it is really sad that people have been so rude to you, I sympathize. You have to put up with a lot of the B&M just for your job and I applaud you for the composure you show under the circumstances. You don't usually get the option, I'm sure, to just turn it off and go play. Well, here's to you!

Twlzted · Apr 22, 2007, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Ok first & foremost i have 1 bluntly openly viewable thing you all should agree w/ but ummm.....Why the updates to begin w/,i mean how many updates have you dun in the past few days 3 i beleive it is,you did 1 on the 18th,19th & 1 on the 20th,now correct me if im wrong here but was there really a NEED for this? I mean i play this game DAILY as does alot of folks round here & i witness & watch the community hardcore for changes,updates,outlooks,views,opinions etc etc the list goes on & on, the fact of the matter is there was SOME minor moaning,harping & crying but your gonna have that everywhere you go in life,not EVERYONE is always gonna be happy.

My point is this,life was good until these past (THREE) updates,NOW LOOK, you have more than you can handle so far as harping,moaning,crying & B****ing about everything you just destroyed.There was nothing potentially wrong w/ the game so far as the majority of the public was concerned,sure im gonna have alot of folks disagree & maybe sum will agree w/ what im saying rite now but that draws you back to what i said a few moments ago "not EVERYONE is always gonna be happy"

Now youve unloaded a whole new can of beans that from my perspective noone is happy nor content w/.Yea you as you call (VETERAN/HARDCORE FARMERS) say arent hurt by it,no WE are not,im one of them,i can farm w/ the best of em but you know what,its gotten to the point its a headache nemore to do so,yea i can still do it,thats not the issue.Its not FUN to do nemore is what im getting at.I dont enjoy my time here in guildwars no more,its gotten to a point that its to politically Fu**ed up w/in the economy these days,remember ANET,this is (A GAME!) its not meant to be turned into REAL life drama,its supposed to be fun not give you a frickin headache when you launch your game.

Yes i agree w/ busting your hump & finishing a chapter before you git the BIG rewards such as DoA,i absolutely LOVE DoA myself & find it VERY rewarding to spend the time to run thru & git the perks at the end & within the run as well (gem drops) etc...BUT,w/ that being said do you really think your AVERAGE joe is EVER gonna figure that out? Do you really think jon doe is gonna beat the game and realize to come back in and say oh yea,imma do mallyx w/ henchies,ok then he goes and tries it w/ henchies,damn it aint workin,why,hmm lemme think,ok ill try it this way instead,o damn,that didnt work either,it takes a certain talent,group of people to go there & be rewarded.

No one person is gonna figure out the challenges & be capable of working thru those challenges unless he/she hangs out w/ another guild that knows about it and how to work it,or has friends that knows how it works,one thing needs to be understood here,maybe i buy this game as an (INDIVIDUAL) & im a solo type person,i live my life ALONE,thats who i am in a sense & i see a game called guildwars sittin on the shelf and i wanna have FUN by myself and play this game and beat it and enjoy myself doing it.Alot of games out there give you that option of doing so,this game does not,cuz it has things in it to offer that not only 1 person can do ALONE!They NEED REAL people to help them do it,you guys even say in plain english DoA can NOT be done w/ henchies,its not possible,yea sure bring 50 million candy canes for yourself but what about the henchies,lol.

This post was pointed toward one thing in general (you shoulda left the game alone!) it was perfect (MY OPINION) before the last (3) updates.

GW's 2? hmmph,you wont be seeing me buy it netime soon if its to be designed & crafted to meet the same standards as this first chapter.

Oh & 1 last thing, (Silvershock) i can go to my storage & dump a million golds,greens,gold etc on the ground too,all that screenshot does is irritate people & make you look like a swelled headed know it all,keep your know how to yourself,dont brag about it.Rather than brag & harp you still have the so called TALENT why dont you take that talent and teach folks,rather than spendin your time here w/ your bragging rites spend that time devoted to helping the community better themselves if you agree w/ the NERF!

I wanna have fun & i wanna take my guild places & explore new options,areas that give us the FUN we do so desire as a whole.Its not fun nemore when oyu have to sit in a town for 30 minutes going over builds,skills,schematics,neumatics,odometers,maps, global positioning sensors,speedometers,calibrations,blue prints & i could go on and on,yall git my point,lol....

have a g-day,can hardly wait to come back and see the response.

Diddy bow · Apr 22, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Who am I?
What do I do?

I am the person who reads these forums daily. Who puts up with the name calling and the insults and the questions of my worth to try to answer your questions, listen to your concerns, relay matters of import to the designers, and share their wisdom, insight, reasoning, and updates with you.

I am a member of the design team, a member of the company that made the game that you play.

I am a human being, with a passion for my job, a caring for other people, and a real interest in communicating and helping out.

And I have now left the building.
If anyone wonders why, just read this thread.

Even you ragequitted over this XD.

Just hope they realise how badly this screwed the average player and change it back...